Ray,

If a pass is intercepted and the returner of the interception fumbles and loses that fumble is that a turnover for that team as well? Or are turnovers strictly applied to the offensive team at the start of a play where possession changes?

Thanks,
Chris

Chris – Once a player has clear possession of the football, fumbles it and it is recovered by the opposing team, it is a turnover.  And, yes, you can have multiple turnovers on the same play.  So, in the example you asked about, the offensive team would be charged with a turnover on the interception, and then the defensive team would be charged with a turnover on the fumble lost on the interception return.

By Ray Dunlap

Q – RP18, Result 2: Punter slips in act of punting, dribbles punt which rolls dead 5 yds behind line.

A – This is actually credited as one punt for -5 yards.  This happened to Sean Landetta of the Giants in a playoff game in 1985!

Q – RP 18, Result 10: Snap sails over punter’s head, he recovers ball for 36 yd loss.

A – Score this as one rushing attempt by the punter for zero yards.  The center actually gets charged with a fumble and all other yardage is incidental.

Q – RP19, Result 2: Punter drops snap, then tries to kick ball on the run, he misses it completely, recovered by d1 15 yds behind line.

A – This is a fumble.  The punter gets charged with one run for zero yards.  All other yardage is incidental.

Q – RP 19, Result 11: Blocked punt rebounds to punter, who gains 9 yds.

A – When a punt or a field goal attempt is blocked and recovered by the offensive team behind the line of scrimmage, any running advance is treated as miscellaneous yardage, not rushing yardage.

Q – RP 19, Result 12: High, wobbling punt sails out of bounds 7 yds behind line.

A – This is scored as one punt for -7 yards.

Q – RP20, Result 5: Punt is partially blocked and rolls dead 12 yds beyond line.

A – If a “blocked” kick crosses the original line of scrimmage, it is not scored as a blocked kick.  In this case, this would be scored as one punt for 12 yards.

Q – RP6, Result 3. Center snap hits QB’s helmet and ricochets into the arms of the HB who is immediately tackled for 3 yd loss.

A – Believe it or not, if that ball never hit the ground before the halfback caught it, it will be one rushing attempt for the halfback for -3 yards!

Q – RP7, Result 4: QB can’t handle snap, loose ball bounces up and is grabbed by o3 who gets hit and fumbles; ball rolls backward 16 yds where o9 falls on it.

A – This is a rushing attempt by the quarterback for zero yards.  The QB gets charged with a fumble.  The Offensive left guard gets one fumble recovery (because he had clear possession) and fumble return yardage of zero yards.  He also gets charged with a fumble.  The halfback (o9) gets credited with a fumble recovery, and no fumble return yardage.  All the backward yardage (-16 yards) is miscellaneous and is not counted for statistical purposes.

Q – Result 6: Overthrown safety valve pass is actually a lateral, offensive team doesn’t chase it, d8 recovers 8 yds behind line.

A – This is actually a fumble, charged to the quarterback and a recovery by the defensive corner-back.  The quarterback will be charged with one rushing attempt for a loss to the spot he threw the lateral.  Since the game result does not specify what that is, you would have to make an assumption.  And, it could not be an eight yard loss, because the would not result in a lateral.  Perhaps roll one die and use that number as the loss of yardage to credit to the quarterback on his rushing attempt.

Q – Result 9: Pass is blocked, rebounds to QB who is thrown for 11 yd loss. 

A – This is one pass attempt by the quarterback and one reception for the quarterback for an -11 yard completion.  Interestingly, Brett Favre’s first NFL completion was to himself!

Q – RP8, Result 2: Receiver makes catch … but spikes ball just before crossing goal line, it dribbles through end zone; Tb

A – Receiver gets credited with receiving yardage to the point of the fumble (in this case, the one yard line).  All other yardage is incidental.

Q – Result 6: Pass complete for 16 yds to o7, who attempts lateral to teammate, d11 falls on ball there.

A – Tight End gets credited with a 16 yard reception and a fumble and a fumble lost.    The Safety gets credited with a fumble recovery.

Q – RP12, Result 9: FGA. High snap sails past holder & kicker, holder finally recovers for 27 yd loss.

A – This is considered an “Aborted Play” and the holder gets credited with one run for zero yards.  The 27 yards lost is miscellaneous yardage and it not counted statistically.

Q – RP13, Result 2: FGA. Short kick is caught by d11 .. he returns it for TD

A – This is counted as a “Field Goal Return” by the d11 for a touchdown.  Statistically, this is considered a “Miscellaneous Return,” not a Punt Return.

Q – RP14, Result 4: Returner carries to d41YL … attempts lateral … ball bounces loose and is recovered by d6 at d39YL

A – Returner gets credit for all return yardage up to the spot of the lateral.  He also gets charged with a fumble and the d6 gets credited with a fumble recovery.  All other yardage is miscellaneous and not accounted for statistically.

Q.  Offensive team completes an 8 yard pass and defense is cited for “Illegal Use of Hands” on the play.  Is the receiver credited for an 8 yard reception and then the penalty assessed at the end of the play?  Does the down remain the same?  What happens on touchdowns?

A.  “Illegal Use of Hands” is treated exactly the same way “Defensive Holding” would be treated.  It is a five yard penalty and an automatic first down.  In the scenario described above, the offensive coach would have to choose whether or not he wanted to accept the five yard penalty or keep the play – it is an “either/or” decision.

Let’s say this 8 yard completion happened on first and 10.  The offensive coach could have a first down by choosing to accept the penalty, or he could decline the penalty and take the 8 yard completion instead, now facing 2nd and 2.  You don’t get both the yardage and the penalty.

If the 8 yard completion was a touchdown, then the penalty is automatically declined and that’s the end of it.  It is not marked off on the PAT or the following kickoff.

Q – What if the “Illegal Use of Hands” penalty is committed by the offensive team on that play?

A – “Illegal Use of Hands” penalties on an offensive player are treated exactly like a holding penalty – ten yards from the original line of scrimmage and repeat the down.  So, in that scenario, the 8 yard completion would be wiped out and the penalty would be assessed from the original line of scrimmage.  Again, had this happened on a 1st and 10 play, it would now be 1st and 20 after the mark-off of the ten-yard penalty.

Q – When a team is awarded a first down from a defensive penalty, do they receive credit for the third down conversion?

A – No, because the actual result of the play did not result in a first down.  And, unless it is an “add-on” penalty (facemask, personal foul, etc.) where yardage is tacked on at the end of the play, there is a very good chance that you won’t even have a recorded play from scrimmage (run, sack or pass)!

Defensive Holding, for example, results in a five yard penalty from the previous line of scrimmage, but no actual run or pass is recorded, so there is no play.  And, if you have no play, you cannot have a third down conversion attempt.

Let’s say it is 3rd and 8 and you complete a pass for 10 yards and there is a personal foul penalty on the defense, resulting in an additional 15 yards added to the end of the result.  You would, in that instance, have a successful third down conversion and a passing first down, PLUS an additional first down via penalty, because the penalty went at least ten yards from the spot of the passing first down!  That’s right – two first downs on the same play!

But, had the completion only gone for five yards, leaving you three yards shy of a first down, the penalty, only, would have resulted in a first down.  In that case it is an attempted third down conversion that did not succeed.

Here’s another example.  Let’s say it is 3rd and 1 and the running back gains 3 yards, but the defense was offside.  The offensive coach elects to accept the penalty because it results in two more yards in his favor.  By accepting the penalty, the third down play was erased, and, if it does not happen, it’s not even a third down conversion attempt.

By Ray Dunlap

The kicking team is penalized with “Twisting Face Mask” – Defense – 15 from gain and first down’ during the return, is it correct to award the receiving team a first down by penalty?

No.  There is never a “First Down” awarded on a return, only a play from scrimmage.

By Ray Dunlap

RP3
Result 6: Ballcarrier gains 13 yds, then fumbles; ball bounces 12 more yds towards defense’s goal, recovered there by o5.

Ballcarrier gets on rushing attempt for 13 yards and a fumble.  The other yardage is incidental.

RP4
Result 5: Bad snap goes through QB’s legs, o11 recovers for 3 yd loss

This is actually a fumble charged to the center!  The QB gets credited for one run for zero yards (there has to be a run, pass or sack on every offensive play).  All yardage is incidental.  Now, if the snap had gone 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage and the Fullback recovered it and ended up with a 3 yard loss, he would be credited with fumble recovery yardage, but there is no offensive yardage calculated on that play!

Result 8: QB fumbles snap, o4 falls on ball for 1 yd gain

One rushing attempt for the QB for zero yards and a fumble.  The fact that the ball was advanced one yard before the center recovered it is counted as incidental yardage.

Result 10: Center snaps ball one count early, ball pops into air and is caught by d2 at line, he returns it 1 yd

One run for zero yards for the QB and a fumble lost.  The defensive tackle gets credited with a fumble recovery and a on yard fumble return.

Result 11: Ballcarrier fumbles handoff, ball rolls behind him, he falls on it in end zone, safety

One rushing attempt for the QB for zero yards and a fumble.  The remaining yardage is incidental and not counted for statistical purposes.

Now RP2.

Result 3: QB fumbles snap, picks ball up & laterals in desperation to o2, who attempts pass

For the QB to lateral the ball, he had to have control of it, and if the o2 received the lateral it is implied that is was a legal backwards pass.  And, any player is allowed to attempt a forward pass, so the pass would be legal.  This would be scored simply as one passing attempt by the offensive tackle.

Result 6: While faking handoff, QB bumps into another back, he retains possession but loses 4 yds

Again, this will be an official scorer’s judgment call.  If he believes that the fake handoff was on a play designed to be a pass, then the QB is charged with one sack for -4 yards.  If, however, the scorer believes the QB was attempting a rush, the QB would be given one rushing attempt for -4 yards.

Result 9: Ball carrier fumbles in backfield, ball bounces away, he recovers it while running towards own goal, is tackled for 20 yd loss

Since the ball carrier had possession, fumbled and recovered his own fumble, he is charged with one rushing attempt for -20 yards.

By Ray Dunlap

Phil asks the following questions:

“OK, I’m going to work through all the RP results that, over the years, I was never that sure on how to record them statistically! I’ll start with RP1.”

Result 3: QB mishandles snap, ball pops loose and, after mad scramble, he recovers it for 33 yd loss

Because the QB never had control of the ball, it is scored as one rushing attempt for the QB for zero yards and a TEAM fumble.  All other lost yardage is incidental.

Result 4: Loose fumbled handoff is picked up by o6 (o6 attempts pass etc)

Because the QB had control of the ball and the running-back did not, the QB is given one rushing attempt for zero yards and a fumble.  The fumble yardage is incidental. 

Result 8: QB slips and falls while attempting handoff, loses 3 yds

QB is charged with one rushing attempt for -3 yards.

Result 9: Broken play, QB collides with another back and fumbles, d3 recovers 8 yds behind line

This is a judgment call for the official scorer.  If he believes that the quarterback’s intention was to hand the ball off to a running-back, then the QB is charged with one rushing attempt for zero yards and a fumble.   If, however, the scored believed the QB was the intended runner and inadvertently collided with another player, then the QB would be charged with a rushing attempt for whatever yardage was lost at the spot of the fumble.  All other yardage is incidental, and not accounted for.

NOTE:  The player who last had clear possession of the ball is always credited with a fumble.  This is why quarterbacks routinely lead the league in fumbles, and, with the exception of the Rare Plays, APBA really has no efficient way to replicate this.  They give extra fumble numbers to the QB in his Run column, which isn’t really fair.  Because, if a QB takes a snap, controls the ball, and then pitches it to another player who fails to maintain control and fumbles it, it is the quarterback who gets credited with the fumble!

Do fair catches count as a punt return for stat purposes?

No.  Fair catches are a separate statistical category.

How do you treat running into kicker (5-yard penalty) and illegal block on return team?

Since both penalties are on the receiving team, it is the kicking team’s choice.  They can select either penalty, whichever they feel is most beneficial to them.

How do you score Time of Possession (TOP) when punt returner fumbles and offensive team recovers?

Since time-of-possession does not start until the first offensive play following a punt, and since the punt receiving team did not, in this example, actually run a play from scrimmage, the kicking team is credited for all the time-of-possession as if they never gave up the ball.

How would you score net yardage for a 41 yard punt with holding on the offensive team during the return?

No penalty yardage is taken into consideration when calculating the “net” punting yardage.  So, if the punter kicks a 41 yarder and the receiving team returns it 10 yards, normally that would be a net punt of 31 yards.  If, however, a holding penalty (illegal block) occurred 7 yards into the 10 yard return, here’s how you score it.  The return man now only gets credited for a 7 yard return – the additional 3 yards are ignored.  Then, the ten yard penalty for the Hold is marked off from the spot of the foul, which would end up 3 yards behind where the punt was fielded.  But, since penalties are ignored when calculating net punting average, this would result in a net punt of 34 yards (41 minus 7).

Are all defensive penalties on an offensive scoring play assessed on the ensuing kickoff?

Yes.

If the punt returner fumbles after a 17-yard gain and the fumble is recovered by the kicking team, is any Time of Possession awarded to the receiving (punt return) team?

None of it is.  Time-of-possession does not begin for the team receiving a punt until they actually run an offensive play from scrimmage.

How much net yardage does the punter receive whenever a fair catch interference penalty occurs?

Fair catch interference assumes that the punt returner would have caught the ball at a particular yard line, so, net yardage, in this case, would be equal to the punt distance.  The penalty has no impact.

Can defensive offsides (kicking team) be declined on a kickoff?

Yes.

How do you score a play when a player recovers a fumble and runs for a touchdown?

Fumble return yardage is not counted as rushing or passing yardage – it is miscellaneous yardage and has no impact on total offense or total defense.  The only exception to this is if the fumbling player recovers his own fumble.  In that case all fumble return yardage would just be an extension of the rushing, receiving or return yardage he is already credited for on that play.

Always keep in mind the “Dave Casper-Marv Hubbard” rule.  On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball.  Also, if any player fumbles after the two-minute warning in a half, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If recovered by any other offensive player, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble unless it is recovered behind the spot of the fumble.  In that case, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery.  Any defensive player may recover and/or advance any fumble at any time.

Would a punter receive zero or -3 net yards on a 40-yard punt with a 43-yard return?

-3 net yards.

Is holding on a punt return enforced at the spot of the foul or where the punt was caught?

From the spot of the foul.  And, keep in mind that the returner only gets credit to a return up to the spot of the foul.  So, if a punt returner had a 50 yard return, but the foul occurred 9 yards downfield, he would only be credited with a 9-yard return.  If the foul happened 9 yards downfield, but the returner only had a 4-yard return, he gets credited for a 4 yard return.